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This discussion relates to Technology Review's article IBM Invests in Battery Research.

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  dwwhouse
  

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  06/11/2009 10:59 AM

  Limited Resources?

  Not to demean any technology for its advancements and potential contributions, but to try to keep things in perspective, how much can any one technology contribute to our energy problem?
  
  The question for lithium batteries is applicable for any other energy technology. Even assuming a technology is ready for deployment and is operating at its fullest potential, there are questions of strategic availability, accessibility, manufacturing/refining capacity, distribution, environmental impact and commercial viability of the necessary raw materials and finished product.
  
  In lithium's case, what are the estimated lithium reserves, where are they located and what is the projected demand? There are certainly reserve limits and accessibility issues. Even with efficient recycling efforts, the auto industry alone would require huge quantities of lithium to power every car world wide, replacing the gasoline engine. How far can this be taken?

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    SJA
    

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    06/11/2009 01:12 PM

    Re: Limited Resources?

    There does seem to be an assumption that we are looking for a single technology and a single resource to replace those that we have (for a short while longer) - or at least as few as possible. Is that necessary, or would it make more sense to develop as diverse a group as possible, and use whichever was locally most appropriate?
    In any case, I agree that a sentence or two about reserves for the main resources, and their accessibility, would improve any article about a new technology. 

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    MakeSense
    

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    06/14/2009 11:24 AM

    Re: Limited Resources?

    Your comments about Lithium are valid concerns. Maybe advancements in metal-air batteries can eventually be applied to aluminum-air batteries. Research has been directed there in the past. Maybe the abundance of aluminum or some other suitable metal will become a trade-off for the lower performance of aluminum versus lithium. It could well be that an aluminum-air battery would store three times the energy and still be light-weight, inexpensive and meet consumers' expectations.

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  walt
  

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  06/11/2009 11:51 AM

  "IBM Invests..."

  Your penultimate paragraph indicates that IBM et al. want the taxpayers to do the investing.

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  jsplifer
  

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  06/11/2009 01:43 PM

  We need this tech now.

  Instead of using a molecular sieve to filter the oxygen.  Provide the O2 from a pressure vessel?
  
  I need this energy density today!

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    khairulsyahir
    

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    06/11/2009 06:27 PM

    Re: We need this tech now.

    Then it will not be lightweight and compact anymore. It'll be heavy and bulky.

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  Dave_9876
  

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  06/11/2009 04:39 PM

  Cost is the Market Driver

  I hope the IBM researchers are not missing the market place requirements. Nearly all bulk energy storage applications, including electric vehicles are driven by cost and recharge time not kilowatt-hours per kilogram. The product I am working on has the highest peak energy density, the longest life >30 years, lowest cost per kilowatt-hour and greatest cycle efficiency >95%. Grid storage requires large volumes of inexpensive storage. The IBM product will be best suited for portable electronics rather than bulk energy storage unless they can demonstrate <$100 per kilowatt-hour in cost.  The company I work for is at www-.1-ltl.com  Always good to see what others are researching.

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    Gaetano Marano
    

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    06/12/2009 08:32 PM

    >>> it's a GREAT NEWS for the electric cars >>>

    .
    
    despite the new Lithium metal-air batteries are THE DEATH of MY idea of a swappable battery "cellphoneCAR" [  http://ow.ly/dOIK  ] I'm VERY HAPPY to read about it (and the IBM interest in this research) since they will help the electric cars to (finally!) become (soon!) a COMMERCIAL REALITY allowing the cars industry to produce millions electric cars with half sized and half priced battery packs but 500-1000 miles of autonomy!
    
    .

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    • 
      bugmenot2
      

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      11/16/2009 12:13 PM

      Re: >>> it's a GREAT NEWS for the electric cars >>>

      Some major car companies have been working on this for some time. One of the french brands actually presented this at the 2009 IAA in Frankfurt. Can't remember which one it was but the system was quite interesting.

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  erbium
  

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  06/16/2009 02:38 AM

  Apples to Oranges?

  Comparing batteries to fuel cells doesn't make sense as fuel cells are not energy storage devices. 
  
  Batteries and capacitors store energy and release it.
  
  Fuel cells convert fuel (hydrogen, methanol, etc) to electricity by combining air or O2 plus the chemical and outputing either water if H2 reacted with O2, water plus a few trace nitrogen compounds if H2 is reacted with air instead of pure O2, or carbon dioxide plus water if a carbon chemical like methanol is involved.
  
  they can be indefinitely refueled till the membrane wears out at the speed of pouring liquid reactants (methanol for example), just like filling your tank with gasoline or diesel.
  
  You don't 'store' anything in a fuel cell.  You turn them on, heat them to operating temperature and they process fuel just like an internal combustion engine, except twice as efficient as they turn the chemical energy directly into electricity instead of into hot gas then into motion or then motion into magnetic fields to electricity
  
  perhaps in a simplified form for trivial applications the combination of micro-fuel cell plus methanol cartridge for fueling a laptop or cellphone could be thought of like a battery, but again is not recharged, the methanol cannister is replaced with a new one.
  

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